Why Couldn't Men go to Valinor? Middle-earth Explained

Hey everyone! Thanks for watching! I want to clarify that going to Valinor does not make one immortal. This is what would make it extremely difficult for mortals, as others in that land would be deathless, yet they would still be subject to it.

Elves were giving cheat codes when they were creating their characters, man had to earn every single point and ended up fighting, dying and eventually defeating Morgoth and got.. a bit longer lifespans as a thanks. When you think about it, men kinda had a right to be pissed off.

Arwen: "As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last. For if this is indeed as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to men, it is bitter to receive." Aragorn: "In sorrow we must go, but not in despair. Behold! we are not bound forever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory." --The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen, LOTR, Appendix A

I wonder how many Numenorean fishermen accidentally ended up in Valinor after being blown off course by a storm.

I think the main reason why men were forbidden was a potential lust for the things that were not theirs to have. Of course not all men would have such lusts. Like Aragorn for example. I think Aragorn could’ve been invited to go to the undying lands just fine. The problem is that he was still mortal and would eventually die which was the reason Arwen chose mortality in the first place. Hence, there was no reason for Aragorn to go there. Also, I don’t think that there was any physical reason why men could not live in Valinor. I don’t think they would’ve been eventually killed or something by the beauty or brightness of it. Otherwise Legolas would never have invited Gimli. However I think that after a long time men would probably have grown tired of the lack of change just as the elves grew tired of constant change.

It's common sense. Unlike men who are inhabitants of the world, elves and dwarves are extensions of the world and bound to its fate. The freedom to choose your own destiny contradicts with the immortality of the elves and Valinor.

How is this dude still producing the best lotr content around?

There's also the part where it is said that Eru had possibly created another realm for men alone. After they die their souls temporarily go to the halls of Mandos and then move on. To where their souls go, no one but Eru knows. Eru possibly created another world for men to dwell in in immortality with himself taking care of them.

Personally, I do think that Tuor was allowed to live in Valinor with Idril. Some fans bought a common thread of how elf/man couples live and die similar fates. Beren and Luthien lived and died as mortals, Aragorn and Arwen lived and died as mortals, but if Tuor died and Idril lived, there's a disconnect. Though this may seem unfair and not great, I feel like Tuor makes a better exception to become immortal. Tuor was a man who lived among elves most of his life, his father Huor lived in Gondolin, and he was among the Edain, houses of men that served elves. Ulmo, a Valar, himself chose to tell Tuor a warning message to Gondolin while Beren and Aragorn were only able to meet Maiar, Melian and Olorin (Gandalf) respectively. Tuor was able to marry Idril and bear the savior of men and elves, Earendil. So honestly, though this is unfair to both Beren and Aragorn along with Luthien and Arwen, I'd say that Tuor still has a fair claim to be immortal. Also, it says that Eru Illuvatar himself chose to give Tuor his blessing. Beren and Aragorn were raised by men but Tuor had his whole life surrounded by elves, making him to me more elf in nature than man. So, this is run on, but I feel that because Tuor became closest of elf friends to elf, Eru Illuvatar decided to make an exception. After all, he's God, so i'm sure that he gets to say the final fates of his children. Plus, it spices the story up nicely to have only one man be an elf after a life of being one of the best, if not the closest, elf friend to elf. P.S. I also bet Ulmo had a say in this too, being the Vala that gave Tuor a message himself. P.S.S. in the light that Earendil was there in Valinor and no mention of Tuor was made, I propose a possiblity that Tuor and Idril were laid to sleep until Earendil came to Valinor. Then, afterwards, Tuor was made Elf to be with his family again when Earendil chose to be an elf. That way, Earendil doesn't feel like too much of an outcast as being originally man.

The map to Valinor was with the Dark Elves. And they can't find them in Middle-Earth anymore. Get better Yoystan. Thanks for posting through the virus.

Men go to a place that Elves and the Valar do not even know. In my head canon, I like to think that Illuvatar essentially has their version of Heaven or Valhalla (or both) set aside for them. He allowed his lesser gods to essentially care for and nurture his first children and he wants to nurture his second born, who can only be with him if they die a complete death in body.

Even when those mortal exceptions (Bilbo, Frodo, Sam, Gimli) were allowed to enter Valinor, a mortal REMAINS mortal because that's how they were built. Maybe the healing powers of Valinor could heal the wounds caused by the Ring and allow them to pass in peace. I also read somewhere (most likely not canon) that while a mortal remains mortal in Valinor, the privilege that the Valar gave to Bilbo, Frodo, Sam and Gimli is that they are allowed to CHOOSE when they die, because even if the healing powers of Valinor extended their lives further, eventually all mortals WILL feel weary with life and WANT to depart from this mortal coil. That's how they were "designed" by Eru Illuvatar. The only good thing is that they get to choose to leave it in their own terms, whereas Elves are stuck in Arda even if they wanted to leave. Even if an Elf kills him/herself, they will still find themselves stuck in Mandos' Halls until the Dagor Dagorath. Frodo and co will be enjoying the Gift of Men in its ultimate form.

The doom of Men did not apply to Tuor, first among men to step foot in Valinor and first to be accepted alone among men as the exception to the rule, truly unique as Tolkien created this situation...there is always an exception to the rules, and for Tolkien Tuor embodied this, who, among all men was most akin to the elves. Likewise, Tuor's fate is bound in the marriage to his wife to be the first union of man and elf where the man chose the route of his wife's kindred, here we see the juxtaposition Tolkien gives compared to Tuor's descendants, Aragorn and Arwen in which she chooses the fate of men in wedding Aragorn. Synonymous with Lúthien's decision to join Beren once more after their deaths and live for a time with him before accepting the 'gift' of Men. Truly poetic. As Tolkien states, "the cases of Lúthien (and Tuor) and the position of their descendants was a direct act of God.” --Letter 153. The Valar had no power over their fates and had to appeal to Ilúvatar for intercession. But uniquely, Tuor also was singular among Men to be approached by Ulmo, showing a poignancy to his fate being interwoven with the immortal from the start of his journey. As his life shows, Tuor was in all but birth an elf, raised by elves, not knowing his mortal kin, married into High Elven family and taking up leadership among them, being counted as one of them in Gondolin...the only interaction he had with Men was under the slavery of Morgoth's peons. It's no wonder he would feel and be thought of as an elf in the end. 🙂 This by no means is lore breaking, and is indeed canon according to Tolkien. It creates a wonderful tapestry of the early peoples of Arda and how the 1st and 2nd born are intertwined despite their differences as being ultimately in the hands of Ilúvatar, who sees through the hearts and spirits of all.

Nothing good can come from mortals living in a place where nothing dies. I think that when Men die, their spirits escape into the Ea where they are free to explore creation and can enter within the timeless halls visiting the Ainur and their creator Eru, whom he made in his image.

I believe the reason is thus: Men represent chaos. Just as Elves represent order. I simply believe that if Men were permitted to go to Valinor, then self-destruction would occur. For the Men, the Elves, Valinor, even the Valar. Though it should be noted that Dwarves were never banned from Valinor. They simply never tried to go because of their intense fear of the sea. It was even said that while the Elves believed that Dwarves came from stone and returned to stone upon death... The Dwarves believed that Mahal (Aule) asked Mandos to prepare a separate hall for the Dwarves. Where they too would reside until the ending and remaking of the world, aiding their father in that task. A belief that, I daresay, was told to the Seven Fathers who in turn told their clans upon reincarnation.

Men walking in on the Valor, Maia and Elves in the bathroom. "What are you guys doing in here?" "Get outta here men. We're doing powers and immortality and undying lands, and you don't want no part of this shit!"

I agree with most points you make Master Yoystan. Although I do think that the Valar can easily perceive the hearts and minds of all races easily and that with the exception of Ar-Pharazon and his men, all others who came to Valinor had no evil in their hearts, ill will or even wished to claim immortality. First with Tuor and Idril, that Ulmo could've wished for the grace of the Elves to be given to Tuor for completing the task Ulmo (a just reward from a Vala) set him out to do and for the love of his wife Idril to be with her. When Earandil came to Valinor the Valar knew straight away he was there to justly save all the free races of Middle Earth from Morgoth, but that Earandil would've chosen the fate of Men and only chose the fate of the Elves for the sake of his wife. As for the Men of Numenor it was the Valar who gave them the Island of Numenor and gave the Men longer lives as for their reward of fighting against Morgoth. As for Amandil when he set out for Valinor, yes it wasn't for the sake of the world, but still for the sake of his descendants to not perish for the folly of others, to even warn the Valar of such a threat and to even reveal that it was indeed Sauron who was responsible for such a catastrophe. We will never know what really happened to Amandil and his servants, but what we can assume is that he was able to plead to the Valar who saved his descendants from the downfall of Numenor thanks to a mighty wind that came from the west and pushed the boats to Middle Earth. I'd like to think that Amandil and his servants spent their last days in Valinor peacefully. As for Frodo and Bilbo, they bore the One Ring of Power which corrupted them to their very being and for destroying the Ring and again allowing them to Valinor to finally be at peace and die peacefully. Sam also bore the Ring, but was never fully corrupted, it might've just been a way for him to see Frodo again before dying. As for Gimli it was for the sake of his friendship with Legolas and to once again see Galadriel and it was suggested that Galadriel asked for a pardon to Gimli.

It has been suggested that the concept of Valinor is mainly based on the legend of Faery of western mythology, as indicated by the hobbitish name. Furthermore, it seems to have been based on the ghost and heavenly islands of ancient and medieval legends: Avalon, Hy Brasil, the Blessed Isles, the Elysian Fields, were mythical lands envisioned by the ancient peoples to be far into the western ocean. The legend somehow survived the Middle-Ages with Saint Brendan's Island.

So my thoughts: It is definitely possible that Tuor could have been adjudged as one of the Noldor. However, at that time the Noldor were still under the Ban. However Ulmo would be able to guide him to Valinor. And we see in the Downfall that Eru could reach into Arda and change it. Could he have altered Tuor to make him immortal? I think that if he arrived in Valinor, Ulmo through Manwe would have given Tuor the Grace to live there, but we hear no record of Tuor ever reuniting with Earendil when he arrived. I think he spent many years living in bliss, then willingly went to the Halls of Mandos when his time came. As far as Amandil? I don't think he made it, but his message and plea did. Otherwise Elendil and his sons would also have perished in the Downfall. After the Ban was lifted, the farsighted in Numenor could see Tol Eressea. So it was indeed possible to go there. In fact, isn't there a thing in the Akallabeth where the messangers to Tat-Minastir pretty much said that Men would wither like moths in a flame if they went to Aman? As far as the Hobbits and Gimli, Manwe and Varda gave them the grace to go, and they certainly would have been warmly welcomed by the Valar for their deeds, but Bilbo would go first to Mandos, and Frodo and Sam would go together after they were reunited. Gimli would see and speak with Galadriel before he went to be with his ancestors.

Eru can practically do what he want. It's not problem to him to make Tuor elf. If Tuor died as a mortal man, he and Idril would be divided until remaking of the world. Which is really really long time. So Eru decided not to divide two soulmates (he made the same decission with Lúthien and Beren). I am curious what happened to Amandil. If Valar or Eru punished him for his selfless action, than they aren't any better than Melkor.