Why Was The ONE RING Not Sent To The UNDYING LANDS? (Valinor!) | Middle-Earth Lore

I hope you’re all doing great today! Why not share with me your favourite theories from Tolkiens world for some fun 😁

The Dark Lords must be discussed!

It’s worth clarifying - Isildur refusing to destroy the ring within Mt Doom “on the bridge” was a plot device for the movie and very different to Tolkien’s writing. Isildur was not really corrupted by the One Ring, but it was gnawing at his mind, and he came to understand that he could never master it.

I have one huge issue with the Valar. They did a lot for the Elves but abandoned Men. Elves got their help with their great journey, came to ME to beat and capture Melkor, offered them the paradise to live in, teached them, protect them and what about Men? Men were not looked after from the beggining. Traveled to Baleriand on their own, were left to for Melkor to corrut them, probably making their life shorter. My point - the Elves were loved and carred after and Men were left to be doomed and the 3 houses of the Edain, the middle men, had to fight for survival a lot harder than the Elves. That always makes me feel bad about the Valar. The only adventage Man had over the Elves was the time to get into high numbers. The Elves got all the best from the Valar being a lot stronger race than Men. I would like to see a video comparing Melkor and Sauron as much as a video about the Valar leaving men alone to their doom

Also: the last time the Valar directly intervened, they sank half a continent.

I think the big problem here is that the Valar aren't just legend; they do, and still exist. In some respects, I'd say they serve no purpose, as they will let things go regardless. I feel this is why, in other tales, the old mentor character often goes and dies, so that they aren't compelled to either cheat, and deal with the problem personally, or resist, and seem aloof, and cruel. The Valar, by still being there, seem indifferent and uncaring, despite being somewhat responsible for all of this, in the first place. As for Elrond, "it falls to us who still dwell here to deal with it"...says the elf who plans to sail away, even if Sauron won, because the elves get a get out of jail free card. As for sailing over the sea with the Ring, while I don't want to just downplay Sauron's power, he actually does a pretty good job of showing us he doesn't have a clue where his Ring is, most of the time. Gollum wore it off and on for centuries, and effectively in Sauron's temporary backyard, and the Necromancer didn't even feel it, he was so weak. We know Bilbo used it, occasionally, yet Sauron remains unaware, and still doesn't know where the Shire is. Once Frodo and Sam sneak away, he thinks Pippin and Aragorn have it, and can't even tell it is in his real backyard until it's too late. Meanwhile, elves he hates are sailing across the sea all the time, and he doesn't interfere. The Elven Rings could be going beyond his reach, and he still sits in Mordor, blissfully ignorant. I'm not sure hid spies would be up for the challenge, even if I do believe he could summon up sea monsters, and worse. I don't want to just sit here, an bitch; of course a lot of it is simply "we wouldn't have a story if they could do this", or if Tulkas just strode into Mordor, and drug a weakened Sauron back to Aman, for judgment. It's a wonderful story, andvim usually glad it goes the way it did, but I am willing to poke at these things, like good stories of any author.

The dark lords I wonder how much of it was deliberate how much of it just worked out but sauron's plans and machinations are so perfect it's amazing that he lost but it still works and make sense He might be the only villain I've seen blinded by arrogance we're not only is it logical that he would feel that way but also that he was so confident that he knew that no one could oppose them and if they did have the power to oppose or more than likely they would just take his place

Yes, please discuss a comparison between Melkor/Morgoth and Sauron!

Sauron's biggest mistake was underestimating Eru Illuvitar's love for its creation

9:20 (1) Sauron's biggest mistake was not turning against Morgoth in the 1st age (he had 3 opportunities) When, Fingolfin cut his ankle, when Tulkas chained him, and when Ungoliant captured him. At that point Sauron could have figured out all of Morgoth's weaknesses, returned to Valinor as a hero, and the Valar might have even sent Sauron to Middle Earth as an Istari , (and no-one can argue he wouldn't because that's how he infiltrated the Court of Ar-Pharizon).  (2) Sauron's 2nd biggest mistake was influencing Ar-Pharizon to attack Valinor, any strategist would know Numenor is too valuable as an outpost to watch Valinor's ships and as a stronghold, Sauron's spies (in Numeor) could have stopped all 5 Istari (3) Sauron's 3rd biggest mistake was not using his superior organizational and language skills to turn Mordor into the greatest economic power in Middle Earth instead of just making it into a Military Industrial Complex. Sorry only players of the Shadow of Mordor games series will get that last joke

Got a question if the secret fire wouldve consumed morgoth if he were to possess it, like how the ring consumes and corrupts lesser beings?

I think Sauron's biggest mistake was making the One Ring in the first place. His strategy to rule over the Elves with the ring failed, and the making of the ring permanently divorced his power into two parts, leaving him at risk of either losing the ring to another that could rule over him, or of being permanently diminished by the destruction of the ring.

The Dark Lords Please !

Another point I think you're forgetting is that, even without the One Ring, Sauron was wearing down those who opposed him. Keeping the Ring away from him might have delayed his victory, but it would not have prevented it.

Great topic! Another point to consider is that the tale strongly implies that there was indeed divine intervention in several subtle ways. A few that come to mind off the top of my head: 1) The sending of the wizards, which you mentioned. Also, Gandalf's return after falling in Moria, which is perhaps the most direct intervention. 2) It is strongly implied that the winds in Aragorn's sails, which tipped the scales at the most critical point of the climax, were a divine gift. 3) The appearance of the eagles is symbolic of having the blessing of Manwe and the Valar. 4) Gollum's role is repeatedly hinted as having a greater, unknown purpose. This cannot merely be something vague such as "fate," because the entire timeline is Iluvatar's song. Gollum's intervention after Frodo's failure is almost certainly inspired by the Christian teaching that men cannot "complete the quest" of their own power, and require God's grace. I'm sure there are others.

Thank you for pointing out one thing I feel many people like to miss when asking the question "Why didn't Sauron do this or prepare for that?" Sauron was absolutely convinced no one would ever try and destroy the ring not out of hybris, he knew for a certainty it was impossible for anyone to willingly destroy the ring, and it turns out he was _correct_. Frodo was told quite clearly by Galadriel "If you can't do it, no one can." and it turned out Frodo couldn't do it, so it's safe to assume there is not a single being in Middle Earth that could've thrown the ring into the fire (something people also miss who blame Elrond for not doing something about it after defeating Sauron, he couldn't have done it either. Even if Isildur had given up the ring then and there, Elrond would've just kept it to be studied)

A thought to consider: Assume for a moment that the Valar would willingly receive the Ring from Middle Earth. - Would Frodo be able to give it up to them to destroy? - Would he be able to board the ship (assuming it would be he to bear it to Valinor), knowing there was no turning back? - Upon coming into sight of the Undying Lands, might he plunge himself into the sea knowing he could not keep it from them once they reached the shore? - Would giving it up to the Valar, to be surely and forever destroyed at once, be as difficult to Frodo (impossible!) as it was to cast it into the fires of Mt Doom? If, when the time came, no mortal could bring themselves to destroy the Ring, could any mortal bear to relinquish it to one who decidedly would? Or would it be to them no different than destroying it themselves?

Saurons biggest mistake was turning to evil in the first place.

They also suggest sailing out with the ring and just dropping it to some deep part of the ocean. But there are powers in the deeps of the seas and eventually it will be uncovered. I want to know about that. So essentially they take it to the ocean drop it and eventually when someone stumbles upon it fishing etc. or some water orc finds it. They know eventually whether it is 100 or 100,000 years the ring will be uncovered and back at square one

Sauron made two mistakes which were particularly noteworthy in that he should have known better: (1) He allowed Isildur to get close enough to cut the ring from his hand, when he could have simply bashed Isildur with his mace and been done with it. (2) He let Gollum go, for reasons which are frankly unfathomable. If he expected Gollum to die, then why not just kill him? If he expected Gollum to live and perhaps track down the ring for him, then Sauron should have kept much closer watch on his whereabouts - because that would have actually worked.