The Problem(s) With Zoners in Super Smash Bros.

Thanks for watching everyone! This comment has some important information in it, so please consider clicking "Read More." Before that though, let me know your thoughts on zoners in Smash, as well as any archetypes you'd like to see show up in future polls! -Second channel: youtube.com/mockrocktalk -Twitter: twitter.com/MrMockRock -Twitch: www.twitch.tv/mockrocktwitch -Patreon: www.patreon.com/mockrock -Teespring: teespring.com/stores/mockrock Correction: I stated that (Dark) Samus' Screw Attack comes out on frame 6. That's incorrect, it actually starts on frame 4 and its initial hitbox lasts until frame 6, I got those confused. Thanks to glob2454 for the correction, and damn do I wish YouTube still supported annotations. Disclaimer: This video features the upcoming video game Rushdown Revolt. Vortex Games, the creators of this title, recently approached me to do contracted consulting work for their team. This video is NOT sponsored, and the script was written and recorded before any discussions were had. While I am choosing to disclose the relationship for the sake of transparency, it did not influence the creation of this video, nor any previous videos on the channel that featured either Rushdown Revolt or its precursor Icons: Combat Arena. Any future videos that feature Rushdown Revolt will include an appropriate disclaimer that outlines the specifics of their influence on the project, or lack thereof. Note: Another YouTuber named Kafonn had previously made a video with a similar concept called "The Problem With Zoners in Smash Ultimate." This video was fairly small, and I didn't know about it until production on mine was nearly complete (a viewer replied to one of my posts announcing this one). Frankly, I'm not sure it would have changed my plans even if I did know about it, the concept is fairly generic and there are already multiple "The Problem[s] With X" videos on my channel, but for the sake of keeping everything above board I do feel more comfortable mentioning it. Theirs is very different than mine, but solid in its own right and worth a watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLYFwkq9nRM

Min Min’s weaknesses: Bad disadvantage, weak approach Min Min’s strengths: Doesn’t get hit into disadvantage, doesn’t need to approach

At this rate I think you should just make "The Problem(s) with Snake's Down Air"

Super interesting video, loved hearing a bit about this topic. And, I'm not gonna lie, the idea of giving Ganondorf's Wizkick a projectile-exclusive invincibility, or even just the idea of that mechanic in general, sounds REALLY nice...

Remember when parrying a projectile would leave you MORE MINUS than when you just sheilded it

One of the biggest issues with zoners in Smash to me is that when characters have reflectors or other tools that help with dealing with zoners, they are almost always on zoners or characters who already have a projectile. The most clear cut counter to a zone is given to characters who are creating it.

Ight, imma rushdown a zoner in Super Smash Brothers Ultimate for the Nintendo Switch™️ Damn, the zoner got hands

This is a certified hood classic

1:30 Jack-Of-All-Trades: Shows a shoto Shotos: Shows a Mishima

"Poor predictable Bart, always pick the zooners" "Good old Zooners, nothing beats them" "Proyectyle" "Reflector" "Doh"

Zoners when the opponent has a reflector: "D'oh!"

In the "what's a zoner and why do I punch it" bit, this is why I really like power shielding reflecting projectiles, a universal bit of help against zoning. Balanced by the fact that reflected projectiles do way less damage

I think Belmonts are the best designed of the zoners in Ultimate. Their weaknesses actually matter unlike most zoners in the game. And one of the only reasons they're not very good is a relatively easy one to fix, all they need is lower average KO percents and they'd be way better.

“This video was fairly small” Still a half hr long analysis of a single character archetype 😭

"Projectiles are bullshit!" -Sol Badguy

14:26 Ganon actually had an anti proyectile move. In Melee Captain Falcon and Ganon's side B had this "proyectile intagibility" property while having a really not-disjointed hitbox. It was designed to sidestep proyectiles but lose to normal hitboxes.

Shoto? It's a regional dialect. Uh-huh. Eh, what region? Uhhhhhhhhhh Smash Bros. Really? Well I'm from Street FIgther and I've never heard anyone use the term 'shoto'.

That Justin Wong clip is still one of my favorite ever

“MAKE IT STOP” — ganondorf 2021

Simon: I'm gonna be doing this. Simon swings his whip Simon: If you get hit, it's your own fault. Kazuya: Ok, then I'm gonna start kicking air like this. Kazuya kicks the air Kazuya: And if any part of you should fill that air, it's your own fault.