The Decline of Tim Burton

Hello! My friend Hannah and I started a podcast :) it's called Rehash, and it's all about social media phenomenons that once took the world by storm, only to be quickly forgotten! We're releasing episodes weekly, which you can find here (and wherever you get your podcasts): anchor.fm/rehashpodcast

I was a HUGE Burton fan, but as a Black person, I was VERY offended that he would never want a person who looks like me to soil his image of a perfect world. He goes out of his way to exclude anyone of color from his films. That turned me off real quick. Now, I rarely watch his films that I actually liked, and I have no interest in any of his new works. I’m not saying that a Black person needs to star in every film, but to not even have any as side characters or in the background takes a determination of exclusivity. (I acknowledge the exception of Mars Attacks, and that’s actually my favorite of his.) And, yes Tim has the right to create his art how he wants, I have the right not to support him anymore.

UPDATE: Burton announced a few days ago that he likely won't continue to work with Disney, expressing his dislike with how homogenized their output has become and stating, ""I realized that I was Dumbo, that I was working in this horrible big circus and I needed to escape." So that's a hopeful turn :) Also - I'm considering doing a video in the future on Henry Selick and his influence on children's films, because I rewatched Coraline recently and, wow, that man is a treasure. He is first and foremost the man who brought Nightmare to life, so he really deserves a video all on his own. Lastly - this video is a bit different from many of my other videos in that it's much more opinion heavy, and rooted in my own personal relationship to Burton's work. I am not trying to tell anyone they aren't allowed to like the films I criticize, only to draw attention to a trend that myself and others I've spoken to have noticed with him. CORRECTION: Charlie returns an everlasting gobstopper not a fizzy lifting drink (something I realized way too late into editing in a tight deadline and could not fix unfortunately). I knew while making this what Sleepy Hollow was a fan favourite. Again, why I say this video is based on personal opinion. I watched it for the first time this year with some friends, and maybe there was no nostalgic connection, we really didn't like it at all! We also all found Ichabod's mom to be bizarrely s*xualized considering all of the scenes she occupies are with a child who is meant to be her son. The camera focuses on her exposed chest for very long amounts of time, intercut with shots of Ichabod's smiling face looking up at her. The subtext was pretty easy to draw for all of us - and I'm not someone who typically reads into things so crudely. I don't think our initial reaction was so far a reach - I'm sure it's not what Burton intended, but due to the fact that he and Lisa Marie had an intimate relationship at the time it appears he let that influence his depiction of her rather than the character she was supposed to play. IMO!

I read Miss Peregrine's Home for Peculiar Children. And I tried finding a comment mentioning it. But he erased all the gloom that the book really gave, all the color made it a weird fantasy world instead of the dreadful reality that has monsters and children who weren’t normal. The main love interest Emma is replaced to have the levitating ability even though her fire ability was significant through the books especially since it showed how fiery she is :/ ruin the whole fucking book for me. i was so hyped only for it to the opposite of everything i expected and there was so much potential for a trilogy movie that really went to the dark world of the peculiar children.

Tim Burton's career reminds me of The Simpsons...counter-cultural and edgy for a while until the culture changes around them and they become the culture, whether they know it or not. The dog lost his teeth a long time ago and still thinks he's the toughest on the block, while anyone who's been around a while humors him out of affection because they still remember how he could bite.

Danny Elfman helped Burton more than people are aware. Much of his best work was immortalized through the sound.

Fewer things annoy me more than when people credit Henry Selick's work directing Nightmare Before Christmas and Coraline to Burton. The man has made good movies but those two aren't his

I think there is a larger issue that he ties into well. In the 80s there were tons of movies about nerds, especially about them being outsiders that were picked on and bullied but in reality were the best people in the film (according to the film's logic I mean). But today the nerds and geeks won the pop culture wars which is why things like comic book movies dominate. The outsiders became the mainstream and it turns out they aren't any better than the "normies" they replaced. Burton saw himself as an outsider but now people like him are the ones running the show and who content is made for. He just doesn't realize it.

This is just speculation, but I think Burton is largely a visual arts and spectacle kind of director, but that most of his better films when it comes to storytelling can be largely attributed to the people he worked with. He’s not a good director, he’s a good art director, and him trying to fill the shoes of a director has its pitfalls and inconsistencies.

As soon as I got to the part where Tim is talking about his high school reunion, I knew where this was going. Some people just never grow up past 18 and it’s not always the jocks and cheerleaders.

He never was counter culture, he just was counter imagery. He’s adopting the aesthetic and nothing more.

I think Wendell & Wild was a big “screw you” to Tim Burton from Henry Selick and Jordan Peele. His exclusion of people of color contradicts the core beliefs he supposedly holds. Peele and Selick show you that not only does diversity fit into that world of the “whimsical outcast” - people of color have been involved in alternative subcultures always. The soundtrack featuring many black punk artists - newer like Big Joanie, or older like the nod to Pure Hell - really solidified that point too.

I’ve heard “they peaked In high school” argument so often. Not only from Burton. And as a looser I’m gonna go out and say it’s usually NOT TRUE. Yeah, maybe some jocks are stuck in their suburbias town. Maybe some mean girls got accidentally pregnant and stuck there also. But most popular kids (even bullies) are able to use their social skill to go further in life. They adapt well in any company, they party, they make useful connections, they land a great job positions because they are energetic and charismatic and pretty. I was a looser and a loner in high school I’m still a loner and a looser. But I don’t want to be pathetic and try to make myself feel better at expense of someone else’s misery. Bully from my class became alcoholic? That sucks. Mean girl became teen mom? I hope she’s doing fine. And if a bully from my high school became crazy rich and successful I’m not gonna curse them. There’s a lot of unpleasant rich people. That’s how capitalism usually is. Tim is childish in that regard. He’s not a outsider anymore. He’s a crazy rich guy with hot wife and nice kid. He’s respected in industry. And so far I haven’t seen him doing anything THAT controversial?? If anything at all.

I'm a massive Alice in Wonderland nerd and was kind of saddened by how much Burton's adaptation ignored all of the interesting, potentially deep or dark elements of the original novel, and went for a weirdly generic hero's journey/girlboss story. It made me start to reanalyze the films he made that I adored growing up, and I'm just so glad to see someone voice my criticisms of his work and so much more with way more depth and clarity than I could pull off. You put words to how empty his more recent films, especially his adaptations feel. Thanks for this, it helps give a bit of closure.

I realized about halfway through Alice and Wonderland that Burton lost his magic. And honestly, Coraline and James and the Giant Peach compared to Frankenweenie and Corpse Bride made me realize that Henry Selick was the stopmotion magician. I love Burtons OG characters, but Selick's taste is IMPECCABLE. Hearing Burton say that POC's don't have a place in his work was actually heartbreaking. But then Selick responded by making Wendell and Wild with Jordan Peele. Further cementing his status as an absolute legend 🖤🖤

I remember there was a time when Tim Burton wasn't a brand. I mean, sure, he had his favourite actors and he had a distinctive style that he used a lot, but you never really knew what to expect from him. I can't imagine modern Burton doing something like Mars Attacks! or Ed Wood.

Excellent analysis. I think seeing Alice in Wonderland was what triggered my plummeting opinion of Tim Burton. The 1951 cartoon always evoked such strong feelings of alienation and disorientation for me, with every new character encountered (even the relatively friendly ones) making Alice feel like more and more of an unwelcome outsider. Wonderland was a world without any clear order or direction to it, so Alice's (and by extension our own) presence there builds tension. I'm not typically a purist when it comes to retelling stories, but when you strip all that away, then what's the point of it? There are countless ways to compellingly present a "Mad" hatter, but reimagining him as a "Very Understandably Aggrieved" Hatter just isn't one of them.

He just never outgrew his "not like other girls"/"I'm more special because I am UNIQUE unlike the popular, well-adjusted kids" phase.

"Do you think being a father will influence your film making?" "No, but I do think my films will be darker because of it." My dude. Tim. Timmy. Timothy. That means being a father is influencing your film making.

Sleepy Hollow is actually brilliant. It’s a tribute to the Hammer horror films, who took classic stories like Dracula and Frankenstein and loosely adapted them. It’s a great tribute.