The Breakthrough Battery That The US Gave Away to China

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This was not a “give away”, “error”, “mistake” or “stupidity”. This was a case of politicians/lobbyists selling the tech for their own personal gain. I’m sure that’s also the reason behind Forever Energy’s difficulties in getting a license.

15 million in US development over 6 years, vs. 300 million invested by China over 6 years (according to your numbers) it's very clear where each governments' priorities lie.

Glad that flow batteries are being covered. They have huge potential. One gripe is that the first successful redox battery demo was done by an Aussie chemical engineer. She figured out the sulphuric acid method to do that demo in the 80’s. That’s the patent expiry that opened up the market in the early 2000’s. It wasn’t all NASA and US gov research.

The US Government could simply buy Bushveld Minerals for $1b and it would have all the Vanadium it will ever need for Vanadium Redox Flow Batteries.

Working as an engineer I can say that we've (US, Europe) been giving away tech to China for decades.

It's great to hear more news about redox flow batteries. During my first year of my chemistry bachelor 6 years, I had a class where we had to write a short report and make a presentation about a novel subject in a group. I chose the redox flow battery as a subject and got very excited about the capabilities. Pretty sad that it hasn't taken off as much as I hoped 6 years ago

Bushveld Minerals in South Africa are a major supplier of Vanadium to the West and they are currently in the process of completing their Vanadium Redox Flow Electrolyte Plant, to produce 200mwh per annum. Bushveld Minerals also own/control 50% of the VRFB provider Cellcube. Bushveld Minerals is a listed company on the London Stock Exchange.

I can't see why China having this technology is a bad thing. They need to have grid scale energy storage too. The US government should definitely facilitate US manufacture of this technology though.

Most politicians are not creators, builders, or beneficial thinkers. This, combined with an inherent lack of honesty and integrity in those same politicians has been one of the key factors in the decline of America. The sad part is that a large number of Americans continue to support those corrupt politicians. They are either willfully ignorant, or they are easily fooled by the cheerleading squad for corrupt politicians; you know the squad as the media. We need term limits and a media that is not controlled by politicians or billionaires.

A group of engineers with NRECA and I visited a redox flow battery manufacturer a decade or so ago, somewhere in the NE US mainland. We spent a half a day there, learning about the issues they were having in design and manufacturing. They were building flow batteries into modified shipping containers for a project in a remote Alaskan village. The thing I remember most about the batteries was the complexity of the monitoring and control of the system. There were wires and circuit boards everywhere. I thought about how many things could go wrong. Maybe it was all just monitoring and not really necessary for operation, but I don't think the batteries ever went in service due to breakdowns or failures. If anyone is familiar with this project, I'd be interested to hear what ever happened here.

The problem isn't that RFB shouldn't be given away, it's that RFB should have open source from the start. Public funds should mean public benifit.

Thanks for a great video! A video editing request for you Matt, when comparing two numbers, would you be able to put both numbers on screen at the same time instead of sequentially? Example at 13:36-13:42. I find it easier to mentally compare the numbers this way. In either case, thanks for reading my comment! Cheers!

You should make a video comparing pros and cons for all the different electrochemical batteries including redox flow batteries, liquid metal batteries, sodium-ion batteries, and others.

Honestly I think it is way more important to incentive and invest in new batteries than to care who will profit. In this case China was clearly more interested and better prepared to handle Vanadium and you cannot dismiss the benefits of having a country that is willing to invest into it when compared with a country that clearly slept on it for years. At the end of the "day" (or rather century), what matters is that we have the technology to go net zero, not who profits the most, because I can tell you right know where the biggest profit will go: The ecosystem, the planet.

Great video! It’s frustrating that the US doesn’t find the $300 million to help alleviate supply chain limitations to future energy/power, yet the same US finds 10-100x to fight overseas wars. It’s not just the US, every country should attempt to secure supply chains in order to protect internal and external peace.

If it was funded by US taxpayers money it should either be open sourced or the money should be paid back.

Had been keeping an eye on the Redflow company in Aus which produced some zinc-bromine units that you could install in residential homes, the only issue being the smell/gas toxicity apparently, needed to be installed in a very well ventilated space in case of off-gassing due to the bromine used in their electrolytes. Unfortunately I don't think they are pursuing their residential home battery lines (ZCell) anymore and are moving onto just their industrial versions of the ZBM3, which is unfortunate, as I really liked the idea of the safety of using a battery that isn't potentially going to burn down my home.

Saudi Armaco are also building a Vanadium RFB production facility which is due to come online next year. It will produce 3GWH of VRFB's annually. They are extracting Vanadium from spent oil.

Matt, you have to be put up for an Oscar. You looked genuinely surprised that the US government would 'let' the technology go overseas. Businesses and the government have been doing this for years in the name of profit and greed.