What happened to Surcouf - the largest cruiser submarine of WW2
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Published 2022-02-28
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In ww1, the Germans decimate the British supply lines with their submarine fleet.
Other countries quickly understood the importance of such vessels and how the naval doctrine was forever changed by this new threat under the seas.
After investing serious funds into the creation of their own submarine fleet, the French decided to push forward with a daring concept of hybrid vessel which could provide the serious firepower of a cruiser and the ability for surprise attacks which at the time only the submarines could provide.
There were two types of goals behind the French decision to make the Surcouf submarine cruiser. First were geopolitical goals. One needs to remember that France still had a large empire that spanned four continents leading up to World War 2, and the French were determined to protect those interests.
The only way to do it effectively was through a strong and flexible navy.
Second were the military goals. Its principal purpose was to search and destroy enemy fleets in collaboration with its own fleet.
A sort of a weapon that would spearhead the assault or surprise the enemy fleet while the supporting ships can wreak havoc from the distance.
Another purpose was to engage in the active pursuit of enemy convoys on the open seas. Something like what Germans did with their U boats in WW1 and famous Wolf pack tactics in WW2.
So it was in 1927. That the decision was made and green light was given for the development of a new submarine class.
Building the Surcouf took 7 years before it was finally put into service in May 1934.
It was undoubtedly the largest submarine in its day courtesy of being 110 metres in length and having a surface weight of 3,304 tons. Being so large meant that the submarine could accommodate a crew of 8 officers and 110 men on board. Its interior also contained a cargo compartment that could hold 40 prisoners or lodge 40 passengers.
For comparison, the most famous German submarine of WW2, the Type VII was 67m long and had less than half of the crew of Surcouf.
Size would allow this beast to carry enough supplies for up 10000 nautical miles - or 90 days underwater!.
Its propulsion was provided by two diesel engines and two electric engines. It could attain a top speed of 18.5 knots, which is 34 kph on the surface and
10 knots, equivalent to 19kph when underwater.
But the thing that truly set this submarine as a class of it’s own were the weapons.
The Surcouf would house a twin-gun pressure-tight turret in front of the conning tower, equipped with 203 mm guns. These were akin in calibre to the guns of a heavy cruiser. Each gun had a 60-round magazine capacity and could fire five to six rounds per minute. The ammo was actually stored in a lift well underneath the turret, and brought up during engagements.
The vessel was equipped with a hangar and Marcel Besson MB.411 floatplane. This was important because the guns were hampered by having their range finders positioned so close to the water surface, given that a submarine sits lower in the water compared to a combat ship, so the floatplane could be used as a forward observer and provide the important information for the gunners.
Further fire power was provided by anti air cannons and machine guns for protection against anti submarine aircraft. two 37 mm anti-aircraft cannons and four 13.2 mm anti-aircraft machine guns mounted on the top of the hangar.
The Surcouf was also equipped with 10 torpedo tubes, six of which were 550 mm and four of which were 400 mm tubes.
Four tubes were front facing, 3 were situated in the aft section of the submarine and 3 of them were also in the aft section but they could be used to fire torpedos to either port or starboard side.
However, all of this didn’t come without a bunch of issues.
The Surcouf was also a sluggish vessel, taking two minutes to dive to a depth of just 12 metres. This made the French sub very vulnerable to enemy aircraft, exacerbated by the fact that she had no form of radar on board.
The guns couldn’t be used when the sub’s roll was more than 8 degrees and it was almost efficient for any combat during harsh seas or night because the fall of shot couldn’t be observed.
But enough with the stats, le’s move on now to the story of its life and deployment.
All Comments (21)
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Sadly, no mention of just WHY the Surcouf and other cruiser subs were built and why at the time they were. In the short, because of treaties. In the 1920's, a series of naval treaties, aimed at preventing runaway arms races that could lead to another world war, imposed limitations on the numbers, size and armaments of surface warships, but, initially at least, not those of submarines. As a result, France, Britain and other nations, experimented with large submarines, capable of surface action as a way of building up their fleets without violating the treaties. These loopholes would be quickly closed however, leaving the Surcouf and only a few other vessels of its type.
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Two scenarios fit. One was a freighter that reported a collision with what was possibly a submarine, the other the American aircraft that sank what it thought was an enemy submarine. It's perhaps possible both incidents were the same sub. Damaged in one encounter it may have been destroyed in the second because it was forced to run on the surface due to damage from the first incident. One day she'll be found and we'll know for sure.
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I-400: At last a worthy opponent. Our battle will be legendary!
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It's not all that strange to wait 2 months before declaring Surcouf lost. It would be unusual for a modern ship to be even a day overdue without communication, but this was a warship with notable stealth capabilities in the open ocean in time of war. In the absence of a distress signal or something to indicate they had been attacked or had an accident, they could easily be sneaking around for several weeks trying to make their way to a friendly port.
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The betrayal theory is highly unlikely, especially after the St Pierre and Miquelon liberation, and the fact that there's been no other instance of free French forces defecting. The two most likely possibilities are friendly fire due to being mistaken for a German U boat and an accident.
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My father was in the US Navy in WWII in the Panama Canal Zone. At one point he was sent to sea on a US Destroyer. My father told the story that late one night that either the Destroyer hit something or was hit by something. The rumors at the time that they had been hit by a torpedo that did not explode or they hit a whale........ End of story but it made an impression on my father....
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The HMS M1 would be a more fitting ship for the "Battleship Submarine" title as it was armed with a single 12" (305mm) gun, the same kind as on the Mikasa
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An American ASW patrol aircraft reported attacking a surfaced submarine in the area. It might be it attacked and sank the Surcouf. One submarine looks much like another, particularly if the weather, and therefore the visibility, is less than good. "What's that?" "Looks like a submarine. Let's sink it!"
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Drachinifel has a great video that goes into more detail about the sinking, without any of the Bermuda Triangle or conspiracy stuff.
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I had a Naval Jr. ROTC instructor in HS many years ago. He was a Senior Chief Petty Officer and Chief-of-the-Boat. The senior enlisted man aboard the boat. Yes, subs are called boats, not ships. Well enough history. He told us that "missing" US subs are considered still on patrol. I guess it is part of naval tradition and superstation. I am sure that is not an "official" naval ruling. Just something among brother submariners.
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The sponsor being men's "submarine" dysfunction... well. More surprising plot twist than anything else in the video. HAHAHAH
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So many other WWII wrecks have been found with updated technologies, so, Surcouf may yet be found.
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That railing can’t have been good for underwater speed. I’m guessing that, like most subs of the era, it was designed as a surface ship that could submerge rather than a full time submarine.
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I would love to see a Video on the Imperial Japanese Navy I-400 Class of Submarines, also i would love to know if other countries had plans for even larger more advanced Hybrid Submarines during or after WWII but were never built, as i find the unbuilt Planned/Prototype Warships, Submarines, Warships, Tanks and Aircraft that were proposed during WWII Fascinating!
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The largest submarine disappeared CIA: Gonna cry?
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So as for the pronunciation : Surcouf -> more like "Sürcoof", yet getting the "ü" right seems close to a lost cause for natural english-speaking people, a bit like the "th" for French De Gaulle -> more like "Duh Goal" Cousteau -> more like "Coostow" (with the "oo" from "mood") Cherbourg -> that one's quite OK, the "r" being the other lost cause either way so it doesn't really count :)
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The i-400 also had two sister ships, the i401 and i402 but the i-402 was completed as a submarine tanker
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HMS Audacious (1912) sank ion the 27th October 1914, the RN did not announce the sinking until the 14 November 1918, shortly after the war ended. Subs also could go missing for weeks during ww2 due to technical issues before returning to port. Not anoucing that a sub is missing during a war is not unusual, for a time they can hope that it is having problems and may get back to port, even when they know it is lost not informing your people and therefor also the enemy learning of the loss is important too.
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I really love your videos. Your presentation skills, detailed explanation, deep knowledge and attention to detail are really very impressive. Please keep making such beautiful and informational videos. They are enriching, entertaing and knowledgeable at the same time. YouTube needs more people like you 👍
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Amazing! Never heard of this submarine! Despite its "clumsy-ness" it seemed like a good idea. Why? During WWII submarines, on both sides, often used their deck guns against enemy shipping rather than expend their limited number of torpedoes.
