Why We Keep Retelling Persephone's Story

I hadn't expected so many people to be interested in my in-depth thoughts about Lore Olympus lol. Since that wasn't the focus of this video, but I also don't want y'all to be too disappointed here are my ~thoughts~ (1) Age gap: I already said it doesn't bother me in the video. I go back and forth if it should have just been ignored completely rather than made a point of at all since I feel like it bothers people that it was brought up and then hand-waved. I think RS was trying to be responsible in that regard to at least acknowledge there would be a power imbalance since her readership is broad. Yet, I feel like it only brings focus to the issue. People are going to make their own decision about if they think the relationship is comfortable or not and I don't think (in this incarnation) it really needed to be discussed. (2) Depictions of Abuse/SA (TW): As a survivor of date rape and an emotionally abusive partner, a lot of what happens in these moments focusing on this really aligns with my own emotional experience. Especially the assault scene with Apollo/Persephone. Not only has something like that happened to me but has happened to multiple women I know. It rings true. As for Minthe, I get why it can be frustrating to have an abusive person also be shown to have some sympathetic elements, but I don't think addressing that absolves Minthe. (3) Lack of Body Diversity: I did notice that other than Hestia we don't have much different body shapes other than height and I agree that is disappointing. (4) Tone: I saw one commenter mention that the series has both slice of life and narratives of abuse happening at such a shift it can be jarring. I do understand that criticism. I think for me, because of a lot of manga/anime I read it feels almost normal to have storytelling that breaks up like that. Especially because as a creator—you do want to break up strings of sadness. I know it can feel like a deviation or "filler" but as I get older, the more I sort of see the need to not just wear the audience down. It reminds me of how in Utena, you'd have these really intense psychologically drive episodes and then a whole episode of a side character getting dunked on. In the moment I just wanted the meal, but upon rewatching I'm thankful for the break. Anyway, those are my thoughts in general and if there is anything anyone wants to ask me we will just do it here <3 My discussion with Rachel Smythe will be up on Nebula on Monday and I'll link it here! xx Princess/Melina

People love romanticizing the idea of a brooding, dark yet powerful man falling hopelessly in love with a bright-eyed beautiful young woman. Its the mythology version of bad boy falling for the good girl, devil falling for the angel, the beast falling for the beauty. A tale as old time (pun intended). I’m personally tired of the trope, though I do enjoy Lore Olympus and retellings where Persephone has agency and is equal to him. In the original myths, he’s one of the few Gods I like as he seems to just be a chill guy that minds his business and loves his wife. Even in the Disney film he’s a likable and entertaining villain. I’ll never forgive Disney for trying to convince people that Zeus and Hera are good parents though.

Thank you for the justice for Demeter!!! It feels like every adaptation from Percy Jackson to Hades presents her as a horrible, overbearing parent. Especially when Zeus, Mr Abusive Parent incarnate, is literally right there

From Demeter's perspective it's a mystery drama about a single mother investigating her daughter's disappearance

My only complaint with a lot of modern retellings is I do feel quite a few of them often give Persephone the “uwu smol bean, cinnamon roll” treatment and I’d like to see more of her as a strong, capable woman instead of a naïve girl, I want more of her duality of being a goddess of life and a queen of death. Greeks used to not utter her name in fear of invoking her wrath and in quite a few myths, she’s depicted as being a bit sadistic and the one between her and Hades to duel out harsher punishments. I really love Hadestown’s version of Persephone for going for a more mature version of her. She feels complex. She’s still light hearted and fun loving (seeing how she acts before having to depart from up top to Hadestown) as I’ve often seen Persephone depicted while still feeling like she’s come into her own, she’s aged, she is a Queen and knows it.

I just think it’s funny seeing people debate about the “original” Persephone in the myths as if she is just one person in one story with consistent characterization. There are about a billion iterations of the story, and I think it’s hilarious to see people say “well Persephone ACTUALLY-“ like bro there is no definitive story, it is myth, it is fluid.

I think the characterization of Demeter is a lot of modern work retelling the Hades - Persephone's story is that she is "Mother Gothel" woman who wants to lock Persephone in a tower. When Demeter just loves her daughter and is freaked out when she goes suddenly with a strange man with the permission of her rapist brother.

I also feel like people calling the myth problematic and criticizing the rise of this story are missing the super WEIRD part about the common version of the myth, which is that Demeter has a say. I know things with the gods are weird, but culturally it is still very strange. Hades asking Zeus for permission to have Persephone and kidnapping her and presenting her with a fruit to which her acceptance meant they were bound to each other were all common marriage traditions of the time. Not to say we can’t criticize any of that today, but that being in the myth itself seems pretty normal to exist. What IS weird is that Demeter wanted her daughter back and by all accounts, Hades did what was considered proper so there was absolutely no reason for Zeus to rescind his approval of the marriage and when Demeter took her grief out on the world, Zeus caved and asked Hades to give Persephone back. Knowing Ancient Greece’s treatment of women, this stands out to me that this is a story that turns around and kind of sympathizes with and favors a mother demanding back her daughter who was already given away by her father. So while Persephone only spends half the year with her mother, not a COMPLETE win for Demeter, it’s still an interesting stand out that a moral that says “a man should still consult the mother of his children before making decisions for them” is even hinted at.

Also, I notice that Persephone is almost entirely defined by her introductory story and less by other myths such as with Adonis and Minthe or her role in Eros and Psyche, I think it would be interesting for her roles in these other myths to get touched on

Also you made me think about another goddess (A Hindu goddess)who's SO underrated, who kind of mirrors Persephone's stories? Parvathi, considered to be the goddess of motherhood and fertility (but also is considered to be the form of THE primordial energy og the universe, what a queen), but her story is more of her desiring after Shiva (god of destruction) and basically MOVING him to marry her (cause he was kinda the og celibate, and usually going into penance was more of what men did), and they live in relative stability.

I resent a lot of the modern portrayal of Demeter as this overbearing terrible mother (thanks Hades for avoiding it), because a tale of the unconditional and bottomless love of a mother for a daughter is not common in media as of now and it certainly was not common back then. Paraphrasing, the idea of a love that could “undo rape and death itself” is just so powerful and tragic. I also wish for a portrayal of Persephone in equal standing to Hades, in terms of wit and maturity at least. We have some less famous ones, but all famous ones do not approach them like this (again, except Hades? Lol).

hadestown persephone is ABSOLUTELY my favourite persephone, i love how anais mitchell puts this spin on her that's so unique from any other version of persephone i've ever seen but that makes SO much sense. persephone as a Wine Aunt™️ with this sharp bite to her and manic energy yet also a warm and caring heart? LOVE her. i want more older persephones like her

one of my favorite retellings is still a story on AO3 where the author reimagined Persephone as asexual, and she uses Hades as a way to escape suitors, using her wits to get people to stop bothering her and Hades goes with it cuz he doesn't mind and just like somebody to talk to. Edit: it's Kore by oneiriad

Not being able to see Hadestown on stage is making me physically in pain.

There was this classics professor on TikTok, and she made a video discussing the myth. She specifically mentioned how prominent greek women, who had status but little power, spent most of their time with their daughters, because men were more free to socialise and their sons would leave, so it was just them and their girls until one of those women was sent potentially far off by their fathers, to be married. At which point the mothers may only see them once or twice a year for special festivals. She then suggested that the main character of the story is Demeter, who represents those women, but from a uniquely empowered perspective of being a vital goddess. What I found even more interesting was how she then discussed that Demeter's attempts to make Demophon immortal was a blatant fuck you to Zuse and Hades, because if she can give out immortality and thus divinity without Zuse, his position as king of the gods would mean nothing, and if she can make everyone immortal, then being king of the underworld becomes equally pointless. I've never really looked at the story the same since then, but IDK how much of that was her opinion/reinterpretation and how much was her explaining what Ancient Greek people would have understood.

Something I'd like to bring up with Demeter in Lore Olympus; she kept Persephone ignorant about her powers and away from the male gods because she believed that one of them would want to take advantage of her daughter (Apollo and Cronus prove her right, as well as Zeus swallowing Metis). It's very similar to, say, a mother making her daughter dress chastely so that she doesn't tempt men (and so they won't rape her). While I'm not condoning Demeter's actions, I understand that she was doing what she felt would best protect her daughter and it's sad that she had to take measures like these after other gods have taken advantage of fertility goddesses in the past. On another note, I once read a fanfic where the whole "the Earth is freezing over" wasn't because Demeter was mourning the loss of her daughter (she actually approved the marriage) but because she learned that Zeus raped Persephone AGAIN and decided that letting winter cover the earth and wither away all the offerings would be the best way to teach him a lesson.

I think the reason that Demeter = helicopter parent happens is that giving Persephone agency means she should choose to eat the seeds and that motivation is easier if she's leaving something she doesn't want / trying to force the ability to stay in the underworld

Who is the bad guy in this story Me: it's Zeus Melina : Zeus it's always Zeus Me: I'm psychic 😎

As a reader and writer of retellings, it's always intriguing to see what the next iteration of these old/ageless stories and myths will entail. Been binging your videos, knowledge is power.

Thank you for calling out the "Demeter is always an overbearing helicopter parent" thing!! I get why it's used as a plot device, but it doesn't need to become a canon trait for every retelling. Demeter's anger is justified!! And she's a cool af goddess in her own right!!! Also, if anyone knows of a version where Demeter's sadness in winter is explored as an allegory for seasonal depression...please tell me because I want that to exist.