The Continous Problem of Warcraft: Where Are the Horde?

Don't worry. When Blizzard needs to kill off another major character, they'll look to the Horde for the solution. Again.

Lack of Horde Characters for the next upcoming expansion is very worrying since we haven't seen Baine, Rexxar, Rokhan, Chen, Talanji, and etc do stuff during SL and small bits in DF. I would like to see more variety of characters besides what we got going into War Within.

Theory: We'll take center stage in Midnight, specifically Lor'themar, Liadrin, and Thalyssra. Also, I think they're saving Thrall (and maybe the Tauren) for the eventual face off with Iridikron rather than with Xal'atath. Not to mention the datamined icons for a "Goblin raid" which could very well be Horde heavy.

Very well articulated and I couldn't agree more. Horde main for life here and I've just felt so out of place for so damn long. It's incredibly demoralizing. I MISS the Horde and I shouldn't have to feel that way.

That one little scene of the WC3 group defending the world tree was awesome (Rexxar, Chen, Baine, Thrall, Rokhan all together) but they need more of that and it wasn’t enough. Narratively they have been nonexistent.

Don't forget as well as Tyrande and Anduin, Shadowlands' highlight was the whole Sylvanas thing which was really further shaming the Horde or at least that was how I felt every time her fucking new model appeared on screen.

The problem they created, was how they made sure the major overarching themes within the games lore is primarily focused on races adjacent to the alliance. Azeroth? Dwarf focused. Legion? Draenei focused. Magic? Dalaran and human focused. They haven't tried to build the horde races as having integral parts of the games overarching lore for a long time. The last time they did was, outside of the factions warring, the focus being about the forsaken with the scourge and lich king, and blood elves around the sunwell.

Finally someone talks about this!

I’m just glad if any of the elves are getting more screen time it’s the terribly half backed void elves. I can see the Forsaken playing a part in the War Within, seeing as there are life infused undead. Those Harronir might be an interesting conversation starter between the Night Elves and the Darkspear Trolls. The Pandaren and Vulpera could use some love as well. No idea how, but some progression with them would be nice all the same.

The problem with the Horde today is that it's lost the edge that made it cool and unique. It used to be fierce and bold, where if you wanted to be Warchief, you'd earn it through a mak'gora—a brutal combat to prove your strength and leadership. But now, the Horde has a council that votes on decisions? That's just not the Horde we used to know. The Undead, once ruthless and chilling, have turned into a group of sentimental characters who spend more time reflecting on their emotions and mistakes. What happened to the fearsome Forsaken? Even the Trolls, who were once led by strong and dynamic characters, seem to lack a clear leader or spokesperson. So many iconic Horde characters have been killed off or turned into something they're not. Saurfang, once a legend among Orcs, is gone. General Nazgrim was killed and then brought back as just a follower for some mission table. Garrosh, who had a complex and compelling story, is also dead. Vol'jin's death felt cheap, and his return was confusing and unsatisfying. Sylvanas, who was already a fascinating character, was made Warchief—a role that didn't suit her—and then her storyline was completely derailed. Even Grommash, in both his versions, is gone. With Thrall and Lor'themar as some of the last remaining leaders, the Horde seems more focused on diplomacy and dealing with new races like the Vulpera. Where are the Orcs who were ruthless warriors, ready to die in honorable battle beside their comrades? Now they seem tamed, domesticated, and nothing like the Orcs who joined the Horde in the first place. It's disappointing to see the Horde become something that feels watered down, stripped of its grit and ferocity. The original spirit of the Horde was about strength, honor, and courage, but now it's been replaced with bureaucracy, sentimentality, and characters who don't seem to fit the Horde's legacy. It's a sad state of affairs for anyone who loved the old Horde.

thalyssera being a character with so much potential not being used

Christie Golden was positively obsessed with Anduin, and every expansion since MoP was completely consumed with making sure we knew what he was doing, so now that she's gone hopefully we stop having to showcase him so much after this first part of World Soul Saga. The Horde has felt irrelevant since BFA since WoW has preferred to keep throwing larger and larger threats that we have to hold hands together to overcome. I miss the Horde and Alliance being at each other's throats.

I just want more Nightborne... specifically, Nightborne vs Naga. I love the Nightborne, because they are what I've wanted to play. Old school Highborne Night Elves, obsessed with the Arcane but also have their own Identity of being able to gather magical and powerful artifacts like the Pillars of Creation and have a mastery over certain aspects of the mage-craft like Teleportation. (We were told Thalyssra alone summoned the entire Horde army of Orcs, Trolls, Tauren, Forsaken and Nightborne in the SL pre-novel...) The Shen'dralar didnt cut it for me because they never developed into their own thing after joining Darnassus. I hope Midnight expands on Nightborne as well. I really hope the Naga return and their is a story that continues the hatred between the former Highborne of Zin-Azshari and the current Highborne of Suramar

i miss garrosh so much...

Thank you for this, and I completely agree. Yes, Thrall has been making a comeback in the narrative, but not in the context of actually leading the Horde. The Alliance still gets a King / Regent, but we have a Council and the spirit of what was the Horde feels broken and secondary. It's been said MANY times over the years that the Alliance races and storylines are favored because they're the traditional "good guy" races of fantasy fiction, and therefore no matter what they do, it's justified and heroic. The Horde is made up of traditional "monster" races, so any attempts to humanize or make them sympathetic characters is pointless. Thrall isn't even leading the Horde now - he left that job back in Cataclysm to protect the world itself, and that's fine. But Vol'jin got shafted in more ways than one, and even his death ended up feeling like a throwaway event. We never truly got to know him as Warchief, and he wasn't given anywhere near the valiant send off that Varian got. I've been a Horde main since I started playing in 2006, and at this point the more it feels like we're being relegated to tokenism in the narrative, the more it makes me want to support the faction out of sheer spite. It's a challenge when you have a fantasy world where Humans aren't the only dominant intelligent race, granted. But that doesn't mean the rest of us just have to accept being sidekicks to their story. Hell, I've lost count of how many of our quests involve escorting, outright saving, or cleaning up a mess for an Alliance NPC. So yes, I agree it's time (especially after the mess a certain shamed dev left in his wake with the burning of Teldrassil) for the Horde to get some love again.

That was really good! I noticed a bit of it here or there questing/playing with my BE WL and other alts of both factions, but you brought it up so clearly that it's like, Huh Blizz. Fix it. I haven't seen the Alpha nor any of the hype. Avoiding to be fresh. Tou did really well miminizing the spollers for WW, and just sticking to the things that came out that we know about from general leaks from Blizz itself even. I'm glad I clicked from MrGM's server. :)

Well-said! I admit, my interest in The World Soul Saga has gotten less instead of more the more it looks like Alleria and Anduin are the only characters that will matter. I just have no investment in their arcs and the fact that the writers don't seem to care about the stories that made me love WoW-- that is to say non-traditional fantasy where more than just elves and humans can stand front and center as heroes --make me worry that this isn't the game for me anymore. People say to look to Midnight for the Horde, but I can't say I'm hopeful for Midnight from what I've seen. I know WoW. I know that the scorned anti-heroes using the forbidden powers of the enemy are a favorite trope of the writers and I wouldn't be surprised to see the Sin'dorei sidelined in an expansion centered in their capital. After all, these are the writers that have Aethas buying gifts for Jaina, the writers that didn't spare a thought for any of the Horde races that Kil'jaeden meddled with during his raid tier and thought that the biggest role Horde deserved to play in Argus was a muffin quest and a single shrine in a cave. And the less said about the Horde's treatment in Shadowlands (ie: the death expansion where they did not think to involve the undead race or the races whose cultures focused on speaking to the dead) the better. I don't believe for a second that the Sin'dorei, much less the Amani, will be anything more than an afterthought at best if not antagonists come Midnight. Between Dragonflight not making time for Mayla and Ebonhorn to share a single word with each other and TWW struggling to give Thrall more than a moment's notice, I'm not seeing much to convince me otherwise. I hope that voices like yours can shift the needle on that, though.

I HAVE to assume the Horde will get some serious play now that Metzen's back on board. It seems impossible that he'd let what most consider his own faction stay in the backseat for very long.

I get it but then there was a while there with a whole sylvanas questline where the alliance got nothing. I think people ignore some of that stuff

Well it's obvious that they're here there and everywhere! But on a serious note I believe that they're going to be more of a focus in Midnight then the War Within as it seems that they've decided to keep this expansion with a smaller cast this time around to give them more focus which is fine.