I Hate That I Hate This Game

***Edit Due to stupidity. In my efforts to "Turn off automated moderation" for comments because I figured this would be controversial. I accidentally "Turned off comments". It should be fine now and feel free to flame me in the comments down below. Music in order of first use; ignoring duplicates for my selfish sanity: Timestamp - Name - Contributing Artists (Game if relevant) 0:00 - A Premonition - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 0:06 - Chrono Trigger - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 0:18 - Childlike - SAM Free Music (100% Orange Juice) 0:34 - Two Steps From Hell Trailer Music - Composed by Nick Phoenix (https://youtu.be/Lwr6nEo4Ql8?si=4jSCvkVurh6R0xcq) 1:02 - Dance of 1000 Suns - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 1:22 - Title Screen - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 1:44 - Mooncradle (Day) - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 2:23 - Encounter Elite - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 3:05 - Serenade of Respite (Day) - Yasunori Mitsuda (Sea of Stars) 3:45 - peace - SAM Free Music (100% Orange Juice) 3:50 - What Comes of Despair - Masayoshi Soken (FFXIV: Endwalker) 4:10 - Do you have any evidence? - watson (100% Orange Juice) 4:33 - Blight - Kou Otani 4:50 - Ending theme (Super Mario World) 5:01 - Robo Gang Johnny - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 5:58 - Bike Chase - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 6:02 - Guardia Millenial Fair - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 6:08 - Battle - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 6:13 - Wind Scene - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 6:16 - It Has To Be This Way - Jamie Christopherson & Logan Mader, Akira Takizawa & Pete Crossman, Jimmy Gnecco (Metal Gear: Rising) 6:27 - Chrono and Marle ~Far Off Promise~ - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 6:40 - The Mountain Trail (Day) - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 7:15 - Peaceful Days - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 8:45 - A Strange Happening - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 9:18 - Guardia Castle (Pride) - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 9:24 - Questioning - Masakazu Sugimori??? I think (Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney) 9:37 - The Trial - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 10:25 - Memories of Green - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 11:05 - The Great Archives - Eric W. Brown, Vincent Jones (Sea of Stars) 11:26 - Mooncradle (Night) - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 12:14 - The Forbidden Cavern - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 12:18 - Malevolent Confrontation - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 13:04 - Zenith Academy - Eric W. Brown, Vincent Jones (Sea of Stars) 13:44 - Devoted Warriors - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 14:05 - Ruins of Strife - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 14:27 - Devoted Warriors - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 14:36 - Prevolt/Zophiel - MONACA (Drakengard 3) 15:57 - Battle On - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 17:02 - Cheerful Mood - Murasato Shota (100% Orange Juice) 17:16 - Living With Determination - Shoji Meguro (Persona 3) 17:30 - A Shot of Crisis - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 19:08 - Ruined World - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 19:20 - Wyrd The Training Dummy - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 19:39 - Trials in the Mist - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 20:03 - Lavos’ Theme - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 20:21 - Primitive Mountain - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 21:05 - Battle 2 - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger [unreleased]) 21:43 - Robo’s Theme - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 22:02 - Dante’s Office - Tetsuya Shibata (Devil May Cry 3) 22:21 - Any Special Orders - Steven McNair (Devil May Cry 5) 22:35 - Nevan Defeated ~ Thunder Blade Nevan - Tetsuya Shibata (Devil May Cry 3) 22:40 - Axel F - Crazy Frog 23:14 - The Humble Boast - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 23:22 - The Dweller of Woe - Yasunori Mitsuda (Sea of Stars) 23:31 - Storytime Interlude Chorus of Content - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 23:55 - Horizons Unbound - Eric W. Brown - (Sea of Stars) 24:10 - Port Town (Day) - Eric W. Brown, Vincent Jones (Sea of Stars) 24:32 - Path of Ascension - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 24:42 - Settler Island - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 25:47 - Delightful Spekkio - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 26:03 - The Clockwork Castle - Eric W. Brown, Vincent Jones (Sea of Stars) 26:43 - Descant of the Dweller - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 26:58 - Black Dream - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 27:05 - Zeal Palace - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 27:20 - Ayla’s Theme - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 27:29 - People Without A Hope - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 28:34 - The Elder Mist - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 28:49 - Aephorul Returns - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 29:07 - The Final Day - Masayoshi Soken (FFXIV: Endwalker) 29:24 - Secret of the Forest - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 29:53 - Sealed Door - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 30:01 - The Hidden Truth - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 30:12 - Undersea Palace - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 30:15 - Remains of Factory - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 30:31 - The Oracle of Tides - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 30:39 - Sacred Secrets (Day) - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 32:14 - The Docks of Wraith Island - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 33:17 - The Mountain Trail (Pirate Version) - Celtic Metal Dude (Sea of Stars) 33:20 - A Woeful Lament - Yasunori Mitsuda (Sea of Stars) 36:27 - Port Town (Pirate Version) - Celtic Metal Dude (Sea of Stars) 36:55 - Watcher Island - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 36:58 - The Mole Masons (day) - Eric W. Brown, Vincent Jones (Sea of Stars) 37:24 - Manoria Cathedral - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 38:27 - Imperial Will - Nobuo Uematsu (FFXIV) 38:52 - Dwellers Fury - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 39:13 - Magus’ Castle - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 39:42 - The Acolytes - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 40:12 - At The Bottom of Night - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 42:31 - Panic At The Outpost - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 42:49 - Whispering Winds The Serpent's Lullaby - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 43:29 - The Town of Mirth (Day) - Yasunori Mitsuda (Sea of Stars) 43:56 - Teaks The Travelling Historian - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 44:20 - Across The Moorlands (Day) - Eric W. Brown, Vincent Jones (Sea of Stars) 44:24 - The Storm Calls For You - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 44:29 - The Watchmaker - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 44:47 - Black Market - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 45:33 - Time Circuits - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 47:11 - Frog’s Theme - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 47:14 - Army of Strife - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 47:37 - Lair of the Fleshmancer - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 47:55 - Meeting Outside Time - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 48:48 - Ascension - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 49:13 - The Skylands - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 49:30 - Lair of The Necromancer - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 49:51 - Schala’s Theme - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 50:38 - The Day the World Revived - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 52:07 - Determination - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 52:11 - Last Battle - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 52:20 - First Festival of Stars - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 53:07 - Tyran Castle - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 54:17 - Duplicitous Wrath Pt.1 - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 54:58 - Duplicitous Wrath Pt.2 - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 56:01 - Zephyr And Sky (Pirate Version) - Celtic Metal Dude (Sea of Stars) 56:48 - Beyond The Stars - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 57:03 - Elegy of the Hero - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 57:13 - The Frozen Peak (Day) - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 58:11 - Sinister Unknown - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 58:31 - The Brink of Time - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 59:30 - pearls are hopping in a cup - Takuya Matsumoto (100% Orange Juice) 1:02:36 - Dragon Quest XI Symphonic Overture - Koichi Sugiyama 1:07:53 - Watcher Island (Pirate Version) - Celtic Metal Dude (Sea of Stars) 1:08:12 - Dance of 1000 Suns (Pirate Version) - Celtic Metal Dude (Sea of Stars) 1:09:04 - Monuments To The Ancients - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 1:09:42 - Contention - Nobuo Uematsu (FFXIV: Heavensward) 1:09:58 - The Maker’s Ruin - Nobuo Uematsu (FFXIV) 1:10:24 - The Mole Masons (Pirate Version) - Celtic Metal Dude (Sea of Stars) 1:11:29 - Cael and the Kids - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 1:11:41 - Fanfare 1 - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 1:12:45 - Sky Base - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 1:13:06 - Battle on v2.1 - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 1:14:17 - Sibling Showdown - Tetsuya Shibata (Devil May Cry 3) 1:15:18 - Encounter Elite v2.1 - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 1:17:02 - Boss Battle 2 - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 1:17:22 - Sophisticated Fight - Hayato Sonoda (Trails in the Sky) 1:18:56 - Shoppe - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 1:19:26 - Temple of Sacrosanct - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 1:19:50 - Hills Of Determination (Day) - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 1:20:28 - Zephyr And Sky (Day) - Eric W. Brown (Sea of Stars) 1:25:39 - Epilogue (To Good Friends) - Yasunori Mitsuda, Nobuo Uematsu (Chrono Trigger) 1:26:31 - And The Story Begins - Yoshito Sekigawa, Yuka Tsukiyoko & Saki Kasuga (Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door) 1:26:50 - A Cat Relaxing in the Sun - Hayato Sonoda (Trails in the Sky)

Plot twist: guy whose favorite game isn't even Chrono Trigger accidentally kinda makes one of the best video essays on its strengths I think I've ever seen.

It's a shame that the internet destroyed the word "cope." Garl wasn't using slang or being meta there. That's how the word is meant to be used.

I feel like indie RPGs besides a rare small handful every 5-ish years tend to fall into a cargo cult curse. Being "Inspired" by the greats and classics while not actually implementing the lessons they were teaching or already mastered. It's all window dressing and aesthetic.

One thing that I’ve seen a lot of people say is that Zale and Valere are “supposed” to be boring. THAT’S NOT HOW WRITING WORKS, PEOPLE!

you didn't have to make a 1h27min video just to tell me to play chrono trigger, but i'm glad you did

Garl's complete lack of reaction to losing an eye, vs Pokey Finch being the weird mean kid next door who joins you on your first mission, runs away, and ends up becoming.... whatever the hell he is

Plot edging is a hallmark of a bad writer, plots that shows stakes and risks but goes nowhere pisses me off so much.

I'm so glad the meta-joke pirate was mentioned here because she was 100% the last straw for me when I stopped playing.

Honestly, the most confusing bit for me in this game's total lack of consequence is how Zale and Valere react to Serai getting Garl killed. He is the one person they are even remotely shown to actually care about, and his death is treated like a huge dramatic moment. Serai disobeys the one thing they've been told to NOT DO out of hot-headed stupidity and their reaction isn't fury, or kicking her out of their group, or even just cursing her out for a moment. They just... don't care.

This video is just... exactly what I felt. Listening to The Escapist's documentary on Sea of Stars, at 28 minutes the game's creative director talks about hitting all of their development milestones, and he says: "My personal nightmare is that because we've shown everything except for the script, right? So I'm just hoping it's not a weak link." And, unfortunately, I think his worst fear was realized. Sea of Stars has a lot of great things going for it, but its story really is baffling. I think you were a lot nicer on those prophecies than I would've been. Prophecies are a staple of any fantasy story, but good prophecies should reveal something about the characters. When the Elder Mist says Valere will need to "create paths on water," that should be a metaphor for something; it should be referring to some internal conflict within Valere. But no, it's just entirely literal. At some completely arbitrary point in the story, Valere needs to bridge two islands together with water... and that's it. What's even the point of that? Zale's prophecy is just as arbitrary. The thing about a Chekhov's Gun like this is that it's not enough for it to just come into play later in the story, it also has to meaningfully impact the story. But these prophecies could be removed entirely and literally nothing changes, about the plot or the characters. As you point out, that applies to a lot of elements in this game. Erlina and Brugraves are another mess. This is probably the game's most interesting conflict, but Sea of Stars just.... never does anything with it. They have a right to feel angry; they've essentially been conscripted into an endless war, an eternity of conflict that can never be won. They aren't allowed to make friends, they aren't allowed to have hobbies, they aren't allowed to have lives. A better story would show us how Moraine's training has severely impacted Zale and Valere. Maybe they're so socially blunted from being holed up in the Academy all of their lives, so indifferent to their own wills and desires they never stop to think about what they themselves want out of life. Erlina's perspective should give them a lot to evaluate, especially when they realize she is correct and there are more Dwellers than just the Dweller of Woe. But it doesn't. Zale and Valere don't care. Apparently they're fine living their entire existence in servitude. I can't remember a game this neglectful of its main characters. My feeling about Sea of Stars in the end is that it feels like it's trying to be a piece of a larger story rather than be an actually satisfying story itself. Consider the Acolytes and Erlina/Brugraves: both sets of characters don't have an actual resolution to their stories in Sea of Stars. Instead, they unceremoniously vanish. Of course, if you've played The Messenger, you have an idea as to what happened to these two. And the fact that the Fleshmancer can travel to alternate universes to wreak havoc screams "shared universe." It means they can set infinite games in this setting, with each one building up a grander narrative of the Fleshmancer, as they have already done with the The Messenger/Sea of Stars. But if this is the direction they go, they need to realize that a shared universe will only be as interesting as the individual stories which populate it.

"I don't want to goon to your plot: I want to COOM to your plot" Thank you for this line, I will now use it when I can.

So someone once mentioned something to me that helped shape my understanding of Chrono Trigger and what a lot of RPGs fail at. And that is Chrono Trigger settles early on what the goal is. To stop Lavos. And the thing is no matter what you're doing or how far removed it seems. It always ladders back to stopping Lavos. Take when you go back in time to the Prehistoric Era to restore the Masamune Ultimate Goal: Defeat Lavos How: By defeating Magus before he can summon Lavos How Lv. 2: By recruiting Frog to fight Magus How Lv. 3: By restoring the Masamune for Frog to wield How Lv. 4: By getting dreamstone from the past to mend the Masamune Complication: In the past, Azala and the Reptites steal your Gate Key, stranding you there. Current Goal: Go after Azala and the Reptites. Your goal of going after Azala and the Reptites is, in theory, not related at all to defeating Lavos, but due to Chrono Trigger's story structure it and everything else in the game always returns to the Ultimate Goal. Everything becomes another rung connected to it. So many RPGs have Shit Happen but that shit is Just Happening. An example of this (which is where the comparison came from) is the original Golden Sun. A mere minute after you get your goal you're forced to get sidetracked and it isn't even remotely clear why. If you try to go ahead, you'll see the path blocked by ivy, but not only is this a poor obstacle logically (you really can't burn or cut it?), it doesn't give you any clue about what you're looking for. The only reason to go to Vault is because Camelot put it right in your path, but that's a terribly unsatisfying and incredibly artificial motive. If I were Crono, I would chase after Azala; if I were Isaac, I would borrow some hedge clippers and ignore Ivan and the thieves entirely. You do a thing only because the thing is there to do and it happens to line up with solving your current problem. Rather than your current problem leading to the situation that will resolve it.

I didn't dislike my time with Sea of Stars, but I knew I was unsatisfied by the writing. This went a long way to helping me understand why.

For me a game's writing and character interaction / dialogue and chemistry makes or breaks a game for me. If the cast actively make me fall asleep, or I find them sterile, I stop playing. This game was one of them, and I never finished it. I'm glad someone else 100%'d it and still felt the exact same way. The more effort goes into everything else, the more frustrated I am because it feels like they let something good rot from the inside out just because they felt like they couldn't stand up and critique the writer or call them out.

I would have changed every instance of a "haha" or "!!" dialogue box with actually showing the character laughing or being surprised with their sprite

you know coping is a real word and not just slang, right? The people of the island are coping with the situation, only coping, for too long one might say.

The most terrifying thing about this video is that, as comprehensive and well-made as it is, the crippling writing problems in this game run so deep that there's probably still another hour and a half of stuff to cover, it's just so much that it's a superhuman task to process all of it. It don't know if it makes sense to feel this way, but it genuinely upsets me when the efforts of an entire team are ultimately put to waste because the CEO of the company (after shit talking the scenario writing in Final Fantasy 6) unilaterally decided he was good enough to be the sole writer of the game and singlehandedly blew the fourth leg out of the proverbial chair. This is a project that really excited me when I heard about it, like the spirit of a certain time wasn't fully extinguished by corporate fuckheads in the 2000s and managed to be passed on. Even the idea of this game still stirs something in me even after I know how poorly it turned out, because what it could have been is just that potent. What a missed opportunity.

24:53 marle's 3 frame jumping animation has more character than the entirety of sea of stars

isn’t it a dedicated rpg classic to go “investigate strange anomaly, find out terrible shit happened, and person A was responsible, decide to merk person A”??????? like, is that not the typical formula? how do you fuck that up???