Undyne's Lie and Why it Bothers Me | Undertale Analysis

This video is a topic I lightly touched on in my Papyrus video years ago, but I wanted to give it more focused discussion. If you wanna see more small UT/DR discussions like this, let me know! You can support me on Patreon at patreon.com/dorked, and if you like Papyrus and Undyne, consider checking out Inverted Fate, my Undertale webcomic, as both play significant roles: invertedfate.com/chapters Please do consider checking out my Paper Mario video, too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79py_BE502o And if you like Kingdom Hearts, I have some videos there, too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ruy5aYUijGE&list=PLVzdARAAbX5Ge_WQcIKdxHnsul6FWhCdo&pp=gAQB Hoping to put out another KH vid sometime soon, and EVENTUALLY that SatAM Sonic vid. My recent Ralsei video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO5m7MhTTPM Other UT/DR Analysis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VfHhBh1c8c&list=PLVzdARAAbX5EbeSqLALxWuHAwby8CYzEC&pp=gAQB Fandom Mandela Effect: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaRKk4DrjUo&list=PLVzdARAAbX5GqbWiV5aum91qkknhNkTEr&pp=gAQB DR theories & analysis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KueHgAZcV00&list=PLVzdARAAbX5FEOB1XMIZoS5ZsBuR6xXD6&pp=gAQB Chapters: 0:00 - Introduction 1:17 - Undyne's Intentions & Double Standards 4:54 - Unintentional Cruelty 6:29 - Neutral Endings & Broken Morals 9:00 - Conclusion & Channel Update

It's funny how the fandom portrays sans as overprotective when undyne is the one who really it is with papyrus

It's interesting how Frisk has the chance to tell a lie to Undyne about animes being real, which i find similar to the lies she tells Papyrus since it's about something she loves and it's part of her life, but if we choose to tell the truth she gets visibly affected but decides to be strong and accept, a reaction I see as a sample of what Papyrus would do if Undyne told him the truth.

Something I never understood is, members of the Royal Guard are supposed to restrain humans and bring them to Asgore, not kill them. Yet they all try to kill Frisk, including Undyne, regardless of if they fight back or not. By that logic, Papyrus is the only guard who actually does his job correctly.

One more thing to note regarding Papyrus being tougher than the Canine Unit is that Papyrus has more HP than all the dogs combined. Papyrus is sitting at a comfy 680 HP, Doggo has 70, Lesser Dog has 60, Dogamy and Dogaressa have 108 each and Greater Dog has 105. And if we're going by Check data, Papyrus has higher ATK and DEF than all the dogs as well and the same about of DEF as Undyne. Behind the scenes the stats are a little diffirent, with Dogamy, Dogaressa and Greater Dog having higher DEF than Papyrus but I wouldn't really count that as "correct" inuniverse, as by that logic Asgore has about -30 DEF. Papyrus is also one of the only two monsters we know of who can change our SOUL mode to blue, an ability that is unique to him and Sans. Not even Asgore can change the player's SOUL mode. Not to mention if we're going by popular fan theories, Papyrus' fabled Special Attack that we never got to see ingame involves him using the same blasters that his brother does (as hinted at by his hangout dialogue if you abandon your genocide run). Papyrus is the single strongest monster in Snowdin and has more HP than both of the Royal Guards in Hotland (who are each sitting at 150) and even Toriel (440) who is a Boss Monster. In conclusion, Papyrus is a good fighter who has more combat abilities, control over his attacks and endurance than all of the Royal Guard members we know (not counting Undyne). Justice for my boi, he deserves that Royal Guard spot.

i never realized Papyrus still is the best possible guard Undyne could ever. and that's WITHOUT proper training

What I also find sad is how even though Papyrus wants to join the Royal Guard for the sole purpose of being popular, he already is, he just never realizes it. In the Neutral Ending where you kill only Papyrus, Undyne leads a rebellion against Toriel and personally throws her out of the castle. Because of Papyrus' death, the underground rejects the policy of treating all fallen humans as friends. And while it is possible that the monsters just sided with Undyne because she's the head of the Royal Guard, as Sans says in his phone call regarding the death or his brother - "nobody wanted to see that happen ever again" which implies that people joined the rebellion specifically because of Papyrus' death. In this case Papyrus is even more beloved by the underground than Mettaton as Mettaton's death doesn't cause any rebellion and ironically enough neither does killing all of the dog Royal Guard members in Snowdin (provided you didn't kill any other monsters).

I love Undyne, but this is still a problem she has. It's disheartening even how in-universe, Sans and Undyne infantilized Papyrus. Anyway, great video as always!

I definitely think it's a personal bias Undyne has for Papyrus that causes her to try and keep him out of danger. When you kill members of the canine unit Undyne shows disapproval and seems to have a genuine desire to avenge them, but when you kill Papyrus in a neutral run it is completely different. She doesn't bother with any big heroic speech, her theme doesn't even play, she just looks back on how much Papyrus meant to her and states coldly that she is going to kill you. Normally Undyne justifies trying to take your soul to help monsterkind or even the rest of the world, but when you kill Papyrus she just wants to kill you out of pure bloodlust. It really is too bad that we'll likely never see a satisfying conclusion to this plot point because it really does add an interesting layer to Undyne's character and learning the truth could be a "GREAT" moment for Papyrus, but hopefully at the very least the more complex elements of Papyrus's character will be explored further in Deltarune. And since you asked I think a fun topic for another Undertale video would be... Sans. I don't mean all the gaster time and space stuff or the possible connections to Deltarune though, for once I think it would be nice to just talk more about his relations to other characters and who he is as a person. There's the more obvious stuff like him talking to Toriel through the door and how he interacts with his brother but I also think you can learn a lot from how he goes about judgements in the neutral runs. It's also really interesting whenever other characters mention him in phone calls since they never really seem sure what to make of him. It's like characters in-universe see him as about as much of an enigma as we do lol. (Also I've always just found it interesting how Flowey seems to almost adore Papyrus while on the other hand he completely despises Sans)

Tbh I get why he isn't in the Royal Guard but he makes incredibly good puzzles and deserves to be in the Royal Guard. I mean, he technically does better than the dogs. Much better.

i actually never noticed the implications of undyne never telling the truth to papyrus. that's a very fair point. honestly with how the thing is handled in undertale (brushed off as a joke as you said), i actually kinda doubt toby fox himself thought of this.

I once saw really good fanart of Papyrus sitting curled up into a ball outside undyne's house next to the window he jumped out of, with him in tears from overhearing what she tells frisk. It's been years since I saw that picture and I don't know the name of the artist but it was an amazing piece of art.

I honestly wonder what papyrus will be in deltarune Without the goal of being a royal guard and without undyne's lie, he must have gotten a new goal And I highly doubt there's another person making him chase an impossible dream.

I know this has been talked about at length at this point, but there's something to be said for the fact that not even Toriel, a Boss Monster which has one of the most powerful monster souls, is able to fully hold her magic back from killing Frisk. However, Papyrus is able to easily do the same thing without exerting himself that much. I know that the 'movement in battle' theory has also been going around, and that also plays into how little Papyrus is trying in his battle with Frisk in Snowdin (other characters in battle move side to side when fighting, Papyrus doesn't move AT ALL). He even spares Frisk at the end of his neutral fight, allowing you to kill him. He's a LOT tougher than he looks, and is smart enough to know that fighting a genocidal murderous human is not smart so he chooses to appeal to your pathos instead. Undyne knows of this intellect and strength obviously, but chooses to shove busy work into his hands because she doesn't want his outlook on life to be tarnished by the grim nature of war and history. What she doesn't know however is that he's probably much more intimately familiar with these subjects then she recognizes. Her motivation makes sense from her perspective, but ultimately she fails to consider his feelings in the process. He sat in front of her house for an entire night just for her to not take him seriously like everyone else, that probably doesn't feel great. Great analysis as usual!

Something that should be mentioned, is that Papyrus is right outside of Undyne's broken window when she tells frisk this... It's quite possible that he actually knows about the lie and hasn't confronted undyne about it.

Absolutely a very very interesting topic people seem to coddle papyrus when in reality he's very aware of the goings on around him, he's got a solid understanding of how the world works and the situation he finds himself in with regards to his brother, and the stakes of everything (despite being a little bit silly and a little gullible) Honestly, he reminds me of me 👀

Papyrus is the only major character to not have some kind of resolution to their story. I feel like he'll be so much more important in Deltarune.

i actually forgot about this issue because the majority of the fanbase doesn't even think to address it, but as you have said, the reason why undyne doesn't allow him into the royal guard is that she wants to shoulder the burden of killing humans by herself, and doesn't want papyrus to get involved

I personally think the thing about the Royal Guard Canine Unit being easily spared through petting can be explained away. Who in the right mind would try petting them during their training? It’s likely that Undyne didn’t realize how big of a weakness it is for them, since nobody in their right mind would think to pet them when they’re in combat

I think her greatest concern is that he can't deal a killing blow, and will try to befriend even the most heartless foe. If something truly evil fell down and went for the kill, he would never do the same in return ever, even for self defense. It's kinda sad, though, her plan clearly backfired; he's so desperate to join the guard that he hovers around the ruins and bugs anyone who pops out of them, making himself an obvious target, while she's all the way out in waterfall and can't protect him...