Does the Law Pre-date Sinai? Testing 12 Claims
Published 2024-07-10
Why does it matter? Those who hold to the theology of Torahism, and consider themselves a Torah-keeping follower of Jesus (aka Torah-observant, Hebrew Roots, Pronomian) are interested in finding a way to show that the old covenant law applies to everyone, not just Israel. And some believe the best way to do that is to try to show that the law has always applied to everyone, not just Israel. Mainstream Christianity, on the other hand (and for that matter, mainstream Judaism as well) teaches that those old covenant commands were never given to anyone other than the nation of Israel. Gentiles were never expected to keep those laws. And further, followers of Jesus today, whether they’re Jewish or Gentiles, aren’t bound by them either. For Christians keeping those things is permitted, but it’s not required.
Soli Deo Gloria!
DONATE TO OUR MINISTRY
TheBiblicalRoots.org/#donate (Thank you!)
OUR LINKS
linktr.ee/rlsolberg
OTHER VIDEOS MENTIONED:
Addressing 17 Hebrew Roots Questions
• Addressing 17 Hebrew Roots Questions
A Case for Sabbath-keeping
Part 1 (OT): • A Case for Sabbath Keeping (Part 1 of...
Part 2 (NT): • Sabbath Keeping (Pt. 2) A New Covenan...
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
02:49 Establishing Context
17:39 Examining the Claims
18:05 The Feasts introduced in Gen. 1
20:07 Sabbath introduced in Gen. 2
21:45 Animal sacrifices in Gen. 4.
25:05 Clean/unclean animals known by Noah
29:08 Abraham tithed to Melchizedek
30:55 Abraham kept God's laws
33:24 Levirate Marriage in Gen. 38
34:50 Moses judged by God's laws before Sinai
37:25 Garden blessings and curses
38:49 Don't intermarry with animals/nations
40:19 Don't touch what you don't eat
42:24 Wrap it up, Solberg.
All Comments (21)
-
So, I am the "Tim Martin" related to this discussion. Just for the record, I don't promote Hebrew Roots or Torah observance. I am a full preterist who views the old creation as the old covenant. The Law was most certainly "added" to this old covenant order introduced in Genesis 1 (Galatians 3). As a preterist, I view this entire old heavens and earth as the subject of Bible eschatology, fulfilled by AD70. This makes way for the New Heavens and New Earth of Revelation 21-22, 2 Peter 3, and Matthew 24, and Hebrews 1:10-12. This is the new covenant of Christ fulfilled through resurrection of Christ the bridegroom and the Church the Bride. See my channel for more detail if this interests you. Just thought the clarification might be helpful. It seems this video aims at goals unrelated to my view as related to Covenant Creation and Covenant Eschatology, which I do promote. Blessings, Tim
-
Thanks Rob. Another great explanation on this subject. Shalom!
-
Just found this channel.... love it! Subscribed! Thanks for the thorough teaching!
-
Torah Keeping seems astonishingly obsessed with what other people do... No it's not enough that they've got 613 to worry about for themselves, they want to make sure the whole world is burdened with it too 😢
-
Are there not hints in Genesis, about shabbat, sukkot, Jacob's periods of 7's, the dates of Noah flood, etc. Would that make sense that those would be hinted at, as Moses was the author?
-
-
I don’t think you disproved Tim’s claim. TBH the book speaks of covenant creation so in context things are clearer. Reading Beyond creation science will clear up that confusion. It’s obvious that the law existed before, when you say Cane an Able sacrifices were just normal practices in the East, you are essentially admitting that they aren’t just alone on earth and that they were among other nations. This is what covenant creation explains and what Tim Martin is saying in his book
-
Romans 7:6 confirms being free from the letter of the law, but not from the law of righteousness, as Romans 7:4 and 8:10 confirms imputed or inherent righteousness.
-
It seems that almost ever question being proposed in these comment by Hebrew Roots people would have been answered if they’d JUST WATCHED THE VIDEO!
-
They also often teach the Mosaic law was eternal. No one is eternal but God. Paul said the law came 430 yrs after Abraham. It is a kabbalistic doctrine that law is eternal. The torah movement is immeresed in kabbalah.
-
Wasn't the Sabbath established at the beginning?
-
Well done, Rob! Truth spoken in love. I learned something about the touching the fruit that surprised me because I hadn't seen it till someone else pointed it out. Eve is the first recorded person to claim "we shall not touch it." But Eve was created AFTER God gave Adam the commandment! So it seems either Adam added to the commandment when he told Eve later or Eve added to it after hearing it. I thought that was so interesting.
-
The explanation that many cultures paid tithe before Sinai does imply that that particular law predated Sinai. The deciding factor would be, did God instruct them to pay tithe. As an aside, did God instruct anyone to keep the moral laws before Sinai? And how does "the law was given because of transgressions" fit in?
-
Opposite of law obeying is LAWLESSNESS. Matthew 7:21-23
-
One big problem. You assumed Mr. Martin is a "torah keeper or observer", or maybe a Hebrew Roots, and therefore based a huge chunk of your time addressing a strawman. Not to say some of your info was important regarding "Torah Keepers", but it was irrelevant regarding Mr Martin. Mr Martin only uses exegesis developing what many scholars have recognized to many degrees. You should do some research on people instead of making things up about them.
-
Hey Sol why don’t you actually tag Tim in this and interact with him?
-
Thank God, that I am no longer under the Torah, because of the great sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross, I am now under his Grace, to God be the Glory.
-
Ii think if we read the OT, we see some men walking with God/living righteous lives before the giving of the law on Sinai. We can actually see some of the laws developing out of the errors in the lives of the patriarchs.
-
Did the "The epic of Gilamesh" predate the Torah? It is being taught, that the Torah took from Yhe Gilgamesh epic.
-
Woo first view! 😄
