Destiny Debates: Do Animals Matter?

Shit like this is gonna make me a goddamn vegan eventually isn't it.

It's a common paradox: overintellectualization can frequently cause people to reach incredibly stupid conclusions. They fool themselves into thinking they're rational, but really they're just making elaborate excuses for their base, immoral choices.

I don't understand why it's so hard to be honest about all this. These days you can live for decades eating beef and pork and lamb and all kinds of fish without ever having left your city, without ever having seen these aninals alive. Kinda hard to empathize with a KFC bucket or a Big Mac. On the flip side, it'd probably be harder to empathize with Bambi if you were a hunter or with chickens if you regularly killed your own to make soup. Growing up in rural Greece in the '80s, I saw a woman decapitate a chicken with a flimsy bread knife. That same woman gave her son a right whooping for throwing dirt at their dog's face. "How would you like it if I did the same to you and you went blind, huh?" We're animals too, social mammals, and our feelings are complicated and often contradictory. The other day I gently scooped up an earwig and observed how cute it looked as it groomed itself, standing at the tip of my finger. That same day I ate pizza that would have been vegetarian save for the pepperoni, processed slices of unidentified meat. I think the crushing majority of people recoils when faced with videos of factory farming. We don't wanna see it. We wanna be disconnected and act as if burgers grow on trees. How many people who make "bacon though" jokes have the stomach to butcher a pig and make their own bacon, I wonder? Vegans have affected me. I have greatly reduced the meat I eat and completely quit beef, lamb, rabbit, octopus and more. That said, if I were at a friend's house and they'd made rabbit stew, I'd rather eat it than throw it away. The harm's already done. Anyway, I never had a moral argument against veganism. My inability to be a vegan is a personal moral failing in my eyes.

Destiny finds the idea of giving up on eating animals too difficult so he goes about justifying it with a whole lot of mental gymnastics.

I'm glad Alex is still talking about animal rights issues. I also appreciated him pushing Singer on his ideas in their conversation recently.

Destiny is intelligent enough that he must know his arguments on this topic make no sense.

Destiny the type of girl to put a cat in a blender

Animals don't lock their prey in cages - but Alex *they would if they could*. Even dolphins blow bubble nets around more fish than they could ever eat. Animals aren't less effectively predatory on their prey because of moral qualms - it's just lack of ability.

What a strange line to draw. Many animals share some of our most valued experiences: love, fear, hunger, longing, and most importantly of all (and the main anchor of our morality) pain. He makes it seem like morality is a choice rather than a carefully thought out set of values based on the suffering of others, humans or none..

i’m an avid bird photographer, and I see their society I see their lives it’s ridiculous to think that only humans could have have moral worth

lol… the lengths this guy is willing to go to in order to remain non-vegan AND logically consistent is embarrassing.

This is the one topic where destiny is just pure coping. I cope too but not to this level.

Animals are not just NPCs you can abuse and throw away

I eat meat, but i totally agree with Alex. I wouldnt say that eating meat is a moral issue but the industrial farming complex is. It is just quite easy to ignore where the food comes from. But in no good conscience can you say that these conditions in the lifestock farms are humane, or justified for a few more bucks. What i dont get is, why is it so difficult for some people to admit that its wrong and instead do all these mental gymnastics?

He’s contradicting himself.. one moment he is saying animals have no conscious experience at all… then he admits there is probably some conscious experience in animals..

God I hope AI don’t develop Destinys ethical framework. If Destiny were an AI he’d be trying to justify the matrix.

Absolute moral bankruptcy at its most apparent.

Yes, I did enjoy the clip. I struggle to figure out what my position is. Your dialogues are very helpful in having me flesh out my thoughts.

When I ate meat I did not try to justify it like this, I just said I eat meat and its wrong. It so obviously morally wrong, no need to walk into "things dumber than me don't matter" trap

I am not a vegan. But Alex won the argument here. Made me think I need to be a vegan.